DID JOB LIVE BEFORE THE FLOOD?

The question is not an easy one and requires some study to understand.  There are several reasons we believe that Job lived after the flood.

First, the flood generally destroyed most landmarks because of all the volcanic ash that we see in layers all over the world.

Thus, the rivers that are called the Euphrates, Tigris, etc. are no doubt in the same area, but not necessarily the same route or places they flowed to before.

For example:

“And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.  11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold; 12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.  13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.  14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates” (Genesis 2:10-14).

The first river had to be supplied by something and it had to be from the mist (dew?) the Lord caused to water the earth before the flood.  “And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.  6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground” (Genesis 2:5-6).

Today there is no way that any river could go all the way from Babylon to Africa because the terrain is not the same as it was before the flood.  The only river we have today with even the same name is the Euphrates.

  1. Some claim no nations existed before the flood, but we can’t really prove either way, for nothing specific is said about nations, either for or against. However, it would seem that because Eliphaz was a Temanite, a descendent of Esau, who lived after the flood, that proves Job’s friend was after the flood.

Thus, it would be best to say that “the only reference to the name “Temanite” besides what is recorded in Job is Eliphaz’ son Teman (Gen 36:11; 1 Chron 1:36).  Esau gave birth to an ‘Eliphaz,’ whose son was Teman (Gen 36:4).  This would be a strange coincidence if this is not the same Eliphaz, Esau’s son.   Bildad was a Shuhite which was the name of one of Abraham’s sons by Keturah (Gen 25:2; 1 Chr 1:32).

Thus, it would appear that Job and his friends lived after Abraham and either with or after Esau.

OT:8487Teyman (tay-mawn’); or Teman (tay-mawn’); the same as OT:8486; Teman, the name of two Edomites, and of the region and descendant of one of them:

OT:8486teyman (tay-mawn’); or teman (tay-mawn’); denominative from OT:3225; the south (as being on the right hand of a person facing the east):

  1. Job was the richest man in the East, but when we see his wealth (camels, cattle, asses, etc), his wealth would not have added up to much more than a few hundred thousand dollars, which is nothing compared to Solomon. Therefore Job must have lived shortly after the flood.
  2. Job’s friends refer to the great ages of their ancestors. “I will shew thee, hear me; and that which I have seen I will declare; 18 Which wise men have told from their fathers, and have not hid it: 19 Unto whom alone the earth was given, and no stranger passed among them” (Job 15:17-19).

The highlighted text indicates that there were no strangers, which only would have been true with Noah and his sons soon after they left the ark.

  1. Job’s age indicates that he lived a total of 140 years after his first 10 children died. “After this lived Job an hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons’ sons, even four generations” (Job 42:1616).

When Job had the first 10 children, he had to be at least 30 years old, which would mean he lived a total of at least 175 years.  This is the age of those in Abraham’s time or before, so he must have lived long before Moses declared man’s days would be 70 or 80 years (Gen. 6:3; Psa. 90:10).

HOW GOD DEALS WITH HIS PEOPLE IN THE OLD TESTAMENT AND THE NEW – Lesson 8 of 8

HOW MANY TIMES DOES THE LORD NEED TO SAY THIS TO MAKE IT TRUE? 

Gal. 3:11—But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Gal. 3:13—Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Gal. 3:19—Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Gal 3:23-25—But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.  24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Rom 7:4—Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Gal 5:2-4—Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.  3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.  4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Continue reading HOW GOD DEALS WITH HIS PEOPLE IN THE OLD TESTAMENT AND THE NEW – Lesson 8 of 8

HOW GOD DEALS WITH HIS PEOPLE IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS – Lesson 7 of 8

WHEN DID THE NEW COVENANT COME INTO EFFECT? 

“In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away” (Heb. 8:13).

CAN TWO COVENANTS (wills) BE IN EFFECT AT ONE TIME (Heb. 9:15-17)?

WHAT HAPPENS TO THE FIRST WILL IF I MAKE A SECOND?

Continue reading HOW GOD DEALS WITH HIS PEOPLE IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS – Lesson 7 of 8

DARING THE DINOSAURS AND DRAGONS

DO WE DARE[i] THE DINOSAURS AND DRAGONS?

There still is some controversy surrounding the name Brontosaurus. When Marsh discovered some partial remains of this dinosaur in 1877 he named it Apatosaurus Ajax after the Greek god Ajax.[ii] However, when he discovered a more complete skeleton two years later, he named it Brontosaurus Excelsus.[iii] 

In 1903, scientists realized that these two specimens were actually the same type of dinosaur. With that being the case, according to the International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature, the oldest name would be the correct one: however, the Brontosaurus name seemed to be more agreeable with the imagination of the public and continues to be used to this day.[iv]

An older illustration of several brontosaurus dinosaurs grazing in water.

Several computer simulations have been conducted on how the tail worked on the Brontosaurus.[v] One simulation—introduced in the 1997 issue of Discover Magazine—showed that the tail of these creatures behaved much like a bull whip does, and that by “cracking” its tail like a bullwhip, then this creature could produce a cracking sound that was over 200 decibels, or louder than the firing of a cannon.

JOB 40:15-24 Speaks of One Such Magnificent Land Animal

  1. Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
  2. Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
  3. He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
  4. His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
  5. He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
  6. Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
  7. He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
  8. The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
  9. Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
  10. He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares (Job 40:15-24).

There are so many areas for discussion and controversy here. Questions abound, but the scriptural accounts seem to bear out what scientist have found.

    1. Was there enough vegetation to sustain them indefinitely?
    2. Should we believe man lived contemporaty with these beasts?
    3. Dinosaurs fascinate children, so why do we not delve more in to sacred literature to educate them.
    4. Is there any animal in secular history similar to these dinosaurs?
    5. With the presumed fierceness and fearlessness they possessed, what caused them to become extinct?
    6. Could this now extinct animal have been called by any other name?
    7. What ancient culture claims such a ferocious beast?

Read the following biblical account carefully and consider that some early  King James translators may not have understood because they had not lived with such beasts.  Several lesser animals were thought to be what the Lord calls Leviathan.

Job 41:1-34 Speaks of a Savage Sea Animal

  1. Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?
  2. Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn?
  3. Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee?
  4. Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever?
  5. Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens
  6. Shall the companions make a banquet of him? shall they part him among the merchants?
  7. Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons? or his head with fish spears?
  8. Lay thine hand upon him, remember the battle, do no more.
  9. Behold, the hope of him is in vain: shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him?
  10. None is so fierce that dare stir him up: who then is able to stand before me?
  11. Who hath prevented me, that I should repay him? whatsoever is under the whole heaven is mine.
  12. I will not conceal his parts, nor his power, nor his comely proportion.
  13. Who can discover the face of his garment? or who can come to him with his double bridle?
  14. Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about.
  15. His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.
  16. One is so near to another, that no air can come between them.
  17. They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered.
  18. By his neesings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.
  19. Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.
  20. Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.
  21. His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.
  22. In his neck remaineth strength, and sorrow is turned into joy before him.
  23. The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved.
  24. His heart is as firm as a stone; yea, as hard as a piece of the nether
  25. When he raiseth up himself, the mighty are afraid: by reason of breakings they purify themselves.
  26. The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon.
  27. He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood.
  28. The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble.
  29. Darts are counted as stubble: he laugheth at the shaking of a spear.
  30. Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire.
  31. He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.
  32. He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.
  33. Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear.
  34. He beholdeth all high things:he is a king over all the children of pride.

[i] https://www.freethesaurus.com/daring“>FreeThesaurus.com

[ii] <a href=”https://www.greekmythology.com/Myths/Mortals/Ajax/ajax.html”>Ajax: GreekMythology.com</a> – Oct 05, 2017

[iii] https://www.newdinosaurs.com/apatosaurus/

[iv] https://www.newdinosaurs.com/apatosaurus/

[v] https://www.livescience.com/52538-supersonic-sauropods.html 

THE EXTERNAL TESTS: Biblical Accuracy

2 Timothy 4:4
2 Timothy 4:4

THE PATRIARCHS

  • Many want to portray the stories of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as “out of place” in history.
  • Some have said that the names of the people mentioned in the Bible during this time are mythological names – not real human names.
  • Additionally, they have tried to say that many of the Hebrew words in the Old Testament are “late” words, indicating the Old Testament was written late, and is therefore legend, not history.

THE EBLA TABLETS

  • In 1964, Paolo Matthiae of the University of Rome discovered the city of Ebla in what is modern-day Syria. It appears that the peak of the empire would have been around the time that Abraham lived.
  • In that city, Matthiae uncovered over 15,000 tablets of ancient writing, only a few of which have been translated yet.
  • What has been translated, however, has provided enormous support for the accuracy of Genesis.
  • The Ebla tablets refer to many of the places mentioned in the Bible such as Hazor, Megiddo, Jerusalem, Lachish, Dor and Gaza, proving that these cities were significant around the time of the Patriarchs, just as the Bible indicates. It also mentions Canaan as a geographical area.
  • Eblaite variations of Hebrew names such as Israel, Ishmael, and Micaiah were names used every day not legendary figures.
  • The Ebla tablets use many of the words, which scholars had previously identified as “late,” indicating that these words are actually early words.
  • There is now no reason to think that the Old Testament was not written early!

ABRAHAM’S UR

  • Before the 1920s, there were no references to Ur of the Chaldees by ancient historians, and scholars assumed that Ur was either non-existent or else some obscure village in the desert, with Abraham being just an insignificant nomad wandering around.
  • In 1922, however, Leonard Wooley began to excavate around a prominent ziggurat in Tell el Maqqaya.
  • He had discovered Ur.
  • Ur and the other contemporary Sumerian cities were no mean dwellings of crude-minded man; evidence suggest they built dams and dikes for flood control, irrigation canals, invented a plow with a seeding attachment, the wheel, hot and cold running water and sewage pipes in wealthy homes.
  • The Golden Age of Ur was around 2100 B.C., about a hundred years after Abraham was to have lived as far as we can tell.
  • Abraham wasn’t leaving just a primitive village when God called him out of Ur.
  • The earliest Sumerian literature written in cuneiform suggests that they originally worshipped one God.
  • By Abraham’s time, however the Sumerians worshipped over 5,000 different gods, including by voluntary human sacrifice

WAR OF THE KINGS

  • Gen 14:1 And it came to pass in the days of Amraphel king of Shinar, Arioch king of Ellasar, Chedorlaomer king of Elam, and Tidal king of nations;
  • Gen 14:2 That these made war with Bera king of Sodom, and with Birsha king of Gomorrah, Shinab king of Admah, and Shemeber king of Zeboiim, and the king of Bela, which is Zoar.
  • Gen 14:3 All these joined together in the vale of Siddim, which is the salt sea.
  • Gen 14:4 Twelve years they served Chedorlaomer, and in the thirteenth year they rebelled.
  • Gen 14:5 And in the fourteenth year came Chedorlaomer, and the kings that were with him, and smote the Rephaims in Ashteroth Karnaim, and the Zuzims in Ham, and the Emims in Shaveh Kiriathaim,
  • Gen 14:6 And the Horites in their mount Seir, unto Elparan, which is by the wilderness.
  • Gen 14:7 And they returned, and came to Enmishpat, which is Kadesh, and smote all the country of the Amalekites, and also the Amorites, that dwelt in Hazezontamar.
  • Gen 14:8 And there went out the king of Sodom, and the king of Gomorrah, and the king of Admah, and the king of Zeboiim, and the king of Bela (the same is Zoar;) and they joined battle with them in the vale of Siddim;
  • Gen 14:9 With Chedorlaomer the king of Elam, and with Tidal king of nations, and Amraphel king of Shinar, and Arioch king of Ellasar; four kings with five.
  • In 1918, William Albright wrote an article claiming that Genesis 14 was either borrowed from a legend or made up entirely.
  • Since that time, however, the historicity of Genesis 14 has been proven beyond a doubt.
  • In 1933, 23,000 clay tablets were discovered in the kingdom of Mari on the Euphrates river which prove those very kings did exist, and fought. Albright also discovered archaeological evidence that the cities mentioned in Genesis 14 were at war during that time.
  • Ultimately, Albright changed his position.

THE MARI TABLETS

  • The Mari tablets also provided more evidence that Genesis records an accurate account of real people and places.
  • It makes note of the city of Nahor, mentioned in Genesis 24:10, and identifies everyday names such as Abraham, Jacob-el and Benjamin. These names do not refer to the actual biblical people, but show that these were common names in that time.

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